NLDS Game 4: Cardinals @ Cubs

Jenifer Langosch/MLB.com

Regular season records: Cardinals (100-62), Cubs (97-62)

Series: Cardinals (1-2), Cubs (2-1)

First pitch: 3:37 pm CT

TV/Radio: TBS, 1120 KMOX, ESPN Radio

Cardinals lineup: Matt Carpenter (3B), Stephen Piscotty (1B), Matt Holliday (LF), Jason Heyward (RF), Jhonny Peralta (SS), Randal Grichuk (CF), Kolten Wong (2B), Tony Cruz (C), John Lackey (RHP)

Cubs lineup: Dexter Fowler (CF), Jorge Soler (RF), Kris Bryant (3B), Anthony Rizzo (1B), Starlin Castro (2B), Kyle Schwarber (LF), Miguel Montero (C), Jason Hammel (RHP), Javier Baez (SS)

Reading material:

  • Cardinals allow a record six homers in a Game 3 loss to the Cubs (link)
  • The Cards executed their game plan against Jake Arrieta, but their pitching made it for naught (link)
  • With the Cardinals on the brink of elimination, John Lackey will get the ball in Game 4 (link)
  • It’ll be all hands on deck for the Cardinals on Tuesday as they try to stave off elimination (link)
  • Michael Wacha’s last two playoff appearances have ended with him allowing a home run. More on his Game 3 start (link)
  • A rookie home run record has been set this postseason — with Tommy Pham, Stephen Piscotty and Randal Grichuk contributing (link)

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140 Comments

Molina just couldn’t do it at the last minute. At least it won’t affect Lackey. From some comments I’ve heard, Lackey prefers Cruz to catch him anyway. Probably because Cruz doesn’t put down any signs. Just lets Lackey throw what he wants to. At this point, that works. : )

With Molina? Seems a stretch to put him in after what we saw last game, Hope he is OK. I guess an all hands on deck kind of game if there ever was one. Who will follow Lackey if he doesn’t have the stamina?

Oops obviously I meant without.

Well, here’s the thing. Lackey will insist on staying in no matter what. And MM will have no reason to argue. It’s a do or die situation.
No doubt Lackey knows the rest of our pitchers probably can’t do the job anyhow. So the entire game’s up to him, tired or not….and as much as or more than anybody else, he knows that.
I would think Yadi’s thumb’s OK…or WILL be OK. Just hurts a lot, I’m sure. He can rest it all he wants in the off-season and/or have corrective surgery if necessary.
I’m cutting the yard. Gotta’ hurry….

Ha….on the pre-game show they were talking about game 5. If we win today, one of the on-air guys thinks Waino will start once we’re back in St Louis. Maybe 3-4 innings followed by the bullpen. We gotta’ win this one first, tho’….

I hope cardianls win

I hope cardianlswin playoff

So Maddon actually manages and Matheny watches. How do you not go out to calm Lackey when he obviously was upset giving up a single and run to Hammels. And Madden has all his pitching moves and strategies in hand while MM makes it up on the fly. With those suicide squeeze plays the other day Maddon simply took over the series and MM has barely responded. Go out and calm him at least.

Couldn’t agree more. MM shoudda’ gone out, calmed Lackey down, and left him in. Lackey knows how to stay with it.
Oops? Another Cubs homer. Crap.

Heyward is up………………..please!

I’m not feeling it gang.That strike out has me down:(

Yep…I’m bummed too. Let’s hope we can get a last-minute rally???

Well, 2016 has to be healthier. Seigrist is doing a Randy Choate. Hope K.C. wins it now unless the greatess come back ever happens. Oh and no matter the outcome Eck is a horrible on air guy.

Yup, we’ll be healthier next season.
I don’t think 2 more at-bats will get us anything tonite. Possible, but not likely. Altho’…we hit Strop decently. Maness in next, I think. Maybe even Wacha after that. Ugh.

And I know Dave. All announcers are rooting for the Cubs to one degree or another, ‘cept for our KMOX guys.
Maybe only another post or two….so wanna’ say nice chatting with youse guys. Hee-hee.
Hopefully will run into you next year?

I fear we slide to 3rd in the Central next year. Lots of adjustments needed and some of the young talent is just not good enough at least yet. Batting instructors need an upgrade with so many swings at balls in the dirt in key situations. Bullpen regulars like the starters were overused and run down. I think I agree that they will not get further with Matheny at the helm but owners will stick with him and will not spend enough to compete. Also enjoyed chatting. Maybe Jenifer will blog about trades etc and we can connect then.

How can Seigrist make the exact same pitch to Rizzo tonight as last night? Note how Rondon changed his approach to Piscotty at the end. They do not seem to learn from past failures at all. And 14 strikeouts two nights in a row? So many chases of low pitches. Coaching shake-ups are required, not just player tweaks.

Cubs hit ten homers,score 15 of 20 runs via the homer and we strike out 27 times in the last 18 innings. We didn’t deserve it this time. Best wishes to you guys,but we’re just a key board away and trades should be coming up along with signings to discuss.
I was in Boston today and alot of people there wanted the Cards to win.I couldn’t believe it after the time it took them to win a WS.Just validates my feelings towards Red Sox fans…………….they’re the worst!!! Glad it rained on them!

Yeah, we kinda’ sucked. We had a chance to get the lead back, but blew it. The Cubs deserve credit. Whoever made the least mistakes won. Plain & simple.
I wasn’t sure if Jen keeps posting after this. Maybe she will. I only began doing online chatting this year…so I’m not familiar with how it goes.
Gonna’ go watch the FSMW end-of-the-season wrap-up. Have a good nite..

If you want to hear something funny search on ytube for the song “It came out of the sky” by CCR and tie it in your mind to Swarbs home run. Too funny. The item (ball) falls out of the sky in Moline. Listen how funny the words are. And doesn’t the drummer look like Arieta?

I hope that when Mo starts thinking about resigning Heyward , he looks at the stats and realizes that from a power position ,that Heyward was fifth on the team in R.B.I. s and tied for fourth in homers . This is not worthy of overspending for those stats.Plus if you double Piscottys at bats ,he would have much better stats than Heyward. Plus if you keep Holiday—who I think has seen his better days , and may need to go the American League to D.H.——-how can you play Grichuk , Piscotty and Pham? In this series I think our aged players —Holiday , Peralta, and Molina all looked old and tired.

Youth did look better at the plate than many veterans, but the pitching meltdown was key as we actually scored more runs in the last two games than in many regular season wins when pitching had to be perfect. They pitching staff simply wore out though MM’s choices in using them raised some questions at times. They need to spend a bit to create more of a buffer for young arms in bullpen and starting rotation and definitely plan to play youth more.

Does Holiday have potential to transition to first base leaving the outfield to the young guns? Or could he be traded for a quality first baseman or pitcher to a team wanting a DH? Heyward is likely too pricey to keep unless he is willing to give up a lot to stay. Yadi is in decline but will likely stay and hope a replacement who doesn’t use PEDs can be groomed soon.

Go Cubbies! This is another fun read by an author and die hard fan, “When a Game isn’t just a Game” http://benjaminjdenenblog.com/2015/10/14/when-a-game-isnt-just-a-game/

The hotter/better team won plain and simple. Now starts the wheels towards making us better and hopefully younger. Winter meetings may lay the ground work for future deals, we’ll see.

The Rangers just imploded against the Jays after leading the series 2-0 as well as the 5th game 2-0. The Rangers made THREE errors in 7th when leading 3-2 a setting the stage for a 3 run Bautista blast; a rather haughty pose and bat flip upset his former teammate pitching for the Rangers and benches cleared briefly with the rather rowdy crowd not helping matters.

Shades of 2011 game six – poor Elvis Andrus made two of the errors as he made one that night against the Cardinals and struck out to end their last rally. The swagger of the Jays may serve them well but it feels off, given the more classy Cardinals approach which I mostly watched this year.

Yep, saw Bautista’s bat-flip on the news. And I agree about a team’s actions…in that the Cards don’t strut swagger or revel in revenge. Class is something you have not learn. One sports reporter even said as much. No fights, no over-bearing attitudes or in-your-face stuff EVER, he said…from the good ole’ Red Birds.
And as for the Jay’s winning? As Dave said, the hotter/better team won.

Aloha Cardinal fans- First let me say I have utter respect for this organization, its history, players, etc… I am a lifelong Cubs fan from the islands, long story short my mom’s father, my grandfather is from the South-Side of Chicago but would take the “L” to see his Cubs. My father a ball player like myself and a collegiate coach, is a Yankees fan because one of my relatives helped with the arrangements years ago with taking major league players to Japan to promote the game. And because of the route they went through the islands. I was blessed to be with a collegiate team as well. You could say, baseball is in our blood. We also have some ties to the Cardinals by way of personnel and avid fans. I began paying attention to ball much more as a youngster in the 80’s and would write players, including Tommy Herr. When I received a response from him I was so excited. I also had the pleasure of meeting Lou Brock in the late 80’s at a card show in the Midwest and asked him kindly but first apologized for the “trade” if he would sign a photograph of himself while with the Cubs for my younger brother and I. I am now on the West Coast. My wife grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, she has been a Giants fan all of her life. We had the pleasure of watching Matheny catch for the Giants for a season and a 1/3 before he had to walk away from the game he loved. My collegiate coach knew La Russa and Sandy Alderson when with the A’s, as we were blessed to have some of our teammates drafted by them. My point, as a kid sure you are competitive and want your team to win, then you get a little older and hopefully more mature and realize how much you love this game and appreciate those few that are able to do it as a job. The Cubs as you know have gone through a major “reorganization.” I have chatted with many Cubs fans the past couple of seasons on Carrie Muskat’s blog on the Cub’s site and many of us refer to certain successful organizations around the league and of course the Cardinals and Giants come up. Pride is not a good thing but this year I had some when I would talk with A’s, Giants’ any fan about how the NL Central Division is the toughest. And sure enough the 3 teams with the best record in all of baseball came out of this division. It also saddened me because I knew the way the current system is set up, that most likely the Wild Card slots would go to the Pirates and the Cubs and the winner would then play the team in the NL with the best record, the Cardinals. This meant that in a 1-game series, then a quick best of 5 game series that 2 out of the 3 teams would be eliminated. As much as I am happy that this young Cubs team is in the postseason, it is not lost upon this fan what the Cardinals and Pirates both accomplished this season. I hope the best for the Cardinals and I mean that because even though the Cubs have had a tough and long drought, I am one that believes baseball should still be a game of merit. Meaning, nothing should be given in order to make “someone or an organization” feel better about themselves. It should be earned. It was exciting to have 3 great teams playing in the same division and wouldn’t that be awesome for next year too?! I think the Cardinals have a bright future as well, hopefully you can hold onto Heyward (FA), Piscotty is only going to get better. I hope Molina can come back healthy, it was great watching his older brother Benji play in SF along with Wainwright. Of course you are all wondering when I would mention Kolten as he is from “da islands..” So blessed to see him play and grow as a player, he is blessed to have a father who has been a great mentor to him along with all his coaches over the years. I like him is “a mixed-plate,” meaning ethnically mixed and there are a lot of us like Kolten from the islands. We like to say it is part of the reason our food is so “Ono” (tasty)! Anyhow, sorry to have taken up so much of your space but wanted you to know that there are many Cubs fans out there that respect this Cardinal organization and look forward to many more great years from both. Take care now and Mahalo!

I too think resigning Heyward is the way to go. Jen’s article was informative, but made no mention of Adams and his situation. I would sign Reynolds ‘just in case’ something with Adams comes up. As for the rest Villanueva and Cishek I’d try and keep them, because pen arms are at a premium now. With that said Garcia doesn’t do it for me, time to part ways. Lackey will want too much for his age although he was pretty effective in the post season, excluding game 4. Too short a rest for an arm that is 38 going on 39 I guess. AND as I said before Holiday has seen better days and I’m not sure about him being healthy, especially at his age and the reoccuring quad stuff.
Winter meetings should give the Cards an idea who’s available and a starting cost. Also, I’m in favor of playing the young guys. If they don’t win the division,fine.I feel that playing a full season will benefit the Org. alot more than part-time playing would.

k.g. thanks for your thoughtful post and the tales of your baseball connections and adventures. I am jealous of your opportunities to see games and meet players, especially Lou Brock. Appreciate your respect for the Cardinals and good wishes for players recoveries and future success – you show real sportsmanship.

I fear the Cardinals low budget, internal player development model will be more challenged as Chicago has so many more resources to spend now that the Cubs ownership cares about winning and will spend a lot to keep on top. So it will be more difficult for them to compete and keep their place in the division in future. They do have good young players, Kolten among then, if he can become more consistent in the field and at the plate. There are many gaps and some aging regulars and also feel Matheny may not have the skills to manage to a championship. Hopefully if they make the right moves as Dave M. suggests next year will be another good season in the competitive NL Central.

Aloha Bob, thank you for your kind reply. I was in Central, IL at the time where my mother’s parents were and heard about this card show that would have Brock. He was very kind to my brother and I, we shared a laugh about the “apology” we made because he knew we could not have done anything about the situation in 1964, we were not around plus we are just fans. But again, he was gracious with us. Just as an aside, where I am in the SF Bay area, we have been blessed with many ball players from the past and one of them was a teammate of Brock and a great fielder and hitter, that was Curt Flood. To your comment about Matheny. First let me say, I have had the pleasure of talking to folks/youngsters the important of a good backstop and how many times they are like another coach. The responsibility on a catcher is immense. I have argued many a time that the best managers in today’s game are usually those who played catcher, be it in the majors, minors and so forth. At one point last year on Carrie Muskat’s Cubs blog I threw it out there for folks to see how many of the managers were former catchers and what which teams go the furthest. Giants/Cardinals: Bochy/Matheny. But just because one is a catcher does not mean instant success as a manager. Tony La Russa was an infielder but one that had a great knack for this game, understanding what it means to manage the team as a whole, manage his bullpen, manage his bench and so forth. It would be a tall order to follow for anyone coming in to fill his “shoes,” no excuses for Matheny, just saying. I think Matheny has the potential to get better. He is a unique situation because he had no prior experience and was hired by St. Louis. He also inherited a pretty good team with a very good organization. So, he was able to ride that talent for quite sometime. I take nothing away from Joe Maddon, I was so happy when the Cubs hired him. But he was not there for the previous 3+ years of agony during the rebuilding and restructuring of the organization. Though Maddon came into a situation of many young folks with no experience and only a handful of veterans, he had a track record that dates back to the Angels, then the Rays and now the Cubs. I think by having the Cubs and Pirates in the Central Division, that will only help Matheny to strengthen as a manager because the competition is at a different level. And let us be honest now. At the end of last season and the beginning of this season I said on the Carrie’s blog that knowing what I understand about the game, what goes into it and the restructuring of an organization, I would be very happy if the Cubs could end up .500 or better for 2015. Anything above that would be “gravy” as we say in the islands. So, in some respects the Cubs came together sooner and that may have startled some of the other teams. It is one thing to say, that team has a lot of “talented prospects” on it but another thing all together to say that team is good and producing. Many talented prospects never made it or had short-lived careers. I think the Cardinals with their young folks like Piscotty, Pham, Grichuk and Wong to go along with veterans like Holliday, Peralta, Carpenter and Molina is a great thing. Carpenter is not that old and if your FO (front office) can get Heyward back and do some work with your pitching I think this team is right back in it. I hope Molina can heal over the break, he still has life in him and can be a great mentor to Cruz and other backstops. Lastly your comment about the media and how they view certain “markets.” Not only the Cardinals, they have done this with the Cubs/Chicago, the Giants and so forth. If it was not about the Dodgers/Yankees/RedSox who cared. I think the only reason the Cubs are getting attention is because it has been 100+ years since the organization won a W.S. and the restructuring was a major overhaul of the system. It took a while for “sports reporters” to talk about the Central Division in serious terms and acknowledge how good it is. This off season will be interesting because there will be a lot of FA (free agent) pitching available and I hope for a more competitive price; the Cubs hope to pick up another starting pitcher and possibly bullpen help. I know my father’s team the Yankees and the wife’s team the Giants are possibly looking at Heyward. So, the Cardinals ownership needs to make him a serious offer and possibly pay a little of a premium to retain him. I think if he knows the front office is serious about retaining him, he will stay. This off season will be an interesting one! You take care now and Mahalo!

By the way see how St. Louis is devalued by the big city press. No mention of 2011 Game 6 (or Pujols 3 HR performance) in this list of greatest world series moments in a list dominated by Yankees, Dodgers, Mets and Redsox:

http://time.com/3535661/memorable-moments-world-series-history-baseball/

And for the stats wonks, here is the proof that the Cardinals multiple comebacks in Game 6, 2011 deserves to be in any credible list of greatest world series moments:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/print?id=52088

Local sports show tonite, said we have a good minor-league player likely coming up (1B & 3B) named Patrick Wisdom. Tuivailala & Alex Reyes will probably be at 2016 Spring training…and that MM is comfortable with the young pitchers they have in development, considering we should have Martinez & Walden healthy by then.

Does this increase the chances the would let Garcia and Lackey walk? Choate goes without saying, as does Broxton..

Aw, I missed most of the show…and that’s all I heard. I can tell ya’ that MM AND Mo aren’t personally crazy about “delicate” little Jaime. How that’d play into an offer (or lack thereof) remains to be seen.
Oh, and the show guy said he thinks we’ll re-sign Reynolds ’cause he shouldn’t be too expensive.
The Cards’ owner, Bill DeWitt needs to tell Mo what the 2016 budget will be. Then, it’d be time to figure out what offers can be made to Lackey & Heyward and also to anyone else, I’m thinking?
I feel if they could get Broxton cheap enuf’….they might re-sign him. But his current 3-year contract, up this year…was $22M. Probably a little high for what Mo & MM might think he’s worth going forward???

Yes.

F.Y.I. Cards fans. Daniel Murphy is beating up the Cubs by himself. The irony of it all is that the goat’s name from the goat jinx is ………Murphy:)

So the cardinals pitchers and hitters got tired. This seems to be a repeating theme. Why arent the mets,cubs, bluejays and royals tired?? What is different?

I think you could say that the injuries thinned our offense and defense more than the others as far as I know. Jays pitching is not too great in the ALCS at present as they seem to need double digit run totals to win.

So according to ‘Back to the Future 2’, Marty McFly returns to the future tomorrow 10/21/15, picks up a newspaper that reads ‘Cubs Win the World Series’! Thank goodness its a fictional movie or I’d be worried:)

Haven’t seen Marty yet:)

Marty must have gotten lost in the rush hour of invisible flying cars – but then where is Hill Valley anyway?

Local newspaper article about 14 available players the Cards might interested in during the off-season? There’s a good series of photos, each with pertinent info. Good read:
http://www.stltoday.com/gallery/sports/columns/ben-frederickson/players-who-will-create-the-most-off-season-buzz/collection_eada8e24-8049-5824-90f2-f6bea6ac8a9c.html#5

Cards may find most of them too expensive. Today’s starter for the Jays Marco Estrada would be cheaper and has out-pitched Price this off season.

How did the Cubs fall do swiftly to the Mets after beating us with relative e? Sure is a funny sport.

Agreed,but not only too expensive,but poor fits. Take for example Davis. His diva attitude won’t fly with this club.Carter strikes out too much yes( like the Cards against the Cubs), but his power won’t translate here. Busch is too big. Zimmerman is interesting though. If you could get him before Price and Grenke set the market, maybe.That said I wouldn’t be too eager to jump into that pool of over priced talent just yet………………..if ever. Remember YOUTH, YOUTH and more YOUTH.

Yer’ right Bob. So many comments by our local radio, TV & newspapers…completely shocked at how the Mets swept the Cubs, but the Cubbies were able to out-play the Cards. Go figure.
During our reg season match-ups, the Cards won 5 & the Mets won 6….which seems even enough. Definitely a funny sport, as you pointed out. : )

At least Cubs fans can perhaps console themselves with a newspaper headline with today’s date detailing their WS win: http://www.cnet.com/news/usa-today-to-release-back-to-the-future-paper-on-newsstands/

Well the Mets young pitchers have gelled and they are getting a post-season performance from Murphy like we got from Freese 2011. We will see if it carries over to the WS, where the Jays still have a shot.

This makes it look like they might consider more changes – hope they make wise moves and don’t disturb what they have too much though.

http://m.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article/155278078/cardinals-could-shake-up-roster-for-2016

Hmmm…so it looks like Kozma may be gone in 2016. Awww…
And ya’ know? There was little to no mention in the article of Lackey & Reynolds, either way. Will it be bye-bye or we hope you can stay?
Honestly….I remain puzzled by the disrespect Cruz continues to get. I just don’t understand it.
The Cards it appears, are still wrestling with the decision on Jaime, “Mr Delicate”. He can be good, but still & all….a pretty risky choice. Hard to say when he’ll get a hang-nail, a migraine, or who knows what else. Hehehe.
Sounds like Jay & Bourjos will be battling each other for a spot. If that IS the case…I’ll bet that Jay prevails.
So the trade-game begins 5 days after the WS is over. I have absolutely no doubt it’ll be chock-full of surprises! Mo’s pulled some unexpected stuff in the past. Just how he rolls… : )
Incidentally, Derrick Goold is a local reporter to keep an eye on. He’ll often receive info & post it, right before any info’s made public by the Cardinals. Derrick’s a real go-getter type.

Update during local TV sports-segment interviewing Mo: “There’s a 99% chance that we’ll exercise Jaime Garcia’s option for 2016. He’s earned it.”
So from that? I guess it’s not quite a done-deal yet.

Hi Haley. I read Jen’s article and like you was curious about Lackey and especially Reynolds. I think much of what the Cards will do this winter hinges on whether or not they sign Heyward. Who they keep or who they trade for all depends on Heyward’s staying or leaving. Predicting now is usually pointless, but Mo knows what the team needs and how much $$$ room DeWitt has given him Sign Heyward less $$$ room, while not signing him means more $$$ room.Personally there are very few I’d keep because I want the young guys to play as much as possible.
I’ll check out Derrick Goold. What paper does he right for? Or is he independent?

Yeah, buddy. Heyward’s situation is first & foremost in priority, exactly because of what you said. Heyward alone will determine the $$$ we’d have left-over to spend on other players if he’s signed. But if not? Mo would have beaucoup-bucks to work with this off-season.
Some of our local writers, sportscasters, etc…are insisting we honestly don’t NEED Heyward. Just that he’d be nice to have on board.
And yep, I guess it was inevitable to keep Jaime. $11M really IS cheap for a good pitcher.
It’s being rumored that DeWitt’s giving MO a darned good budget for 2016.
Reynolds signed his 2015 contract for a “paltry” $2M. I would think Mo would want him back at around that price, since he plays 1st & 3rd. Defensively, Mark’s really not bad. Perhaps a bit unorthodox, but maybe Reynolds could even figure out how to play SS? ; )
I keep wondering who might be interested in making Lackey an offer. As I stated before? Little comments Lackey’s made in the past, lead me to believe John really, REALLY wants to remain with the Cards.
Pham calls him “OG” (the Original Gangsta”)…and I suspect that Lackey gets a kick outta’ being the Cards’ “crusty” old veteran. His attitude alone adds some oomph to the team.
Besides, Lackey would probably be a good influence on the up & coming young pitchers. He could help them with fine-tuning their pitches, stance, etc.
One other thing, is that Lackey probably likes MM, mostly because he’s an even-keeled manager. I can just see someone like Maddon managing Lackey. Might get ugly once in a while. Hahaha.

Here’s a link to Derrick Goold, Dave. You could try signing up for his “Birdland” newsletter? It says it contains all the latest breaking news & Cardinal talk. Heck I might sign up too.
I did create a twitter account from my PC. Makes it easy to check the latest tweets from the Cardinals, Jen, Derrick Goold while I’m just sittin’ here. I don’t do that kinda’ stuff on my phone. By the way…Mo & MM don’t do the twitter thing. Hehehe.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/

11.5 million is cheap for a LH starter. Price will want 20-25 mil. when he comes out over the winter. Grenke and Zimmerman will want alot too. Exercising the option means if they have him to possibly trade for ????.

You know what? I think that’s a good point. Keep Jaime for trade-bait. Goofy me, I hadn’t even considered that.
Another thing Mo said in last nite’s interview: “If you’d asked me earlier in the season if we’d want to keep Jaime for 2016? I’d have said no. But he’s turned out to be a terrific pitcher.”

Ran into an article about Lackey this morning. The gist of the article was that the Cubs may be after David Price this off-season. But the article speculated Lackey would be a better choice for the Cubbies.
Lackey could rejoin his buddy Lester, for one thing. Secondly, Price’s one year contract (2015) was $19.75M…where as Lackey’s previous contract averaged out to be $15M per year. Of course, he could ask for more for 2016. There’s the length of a new contract that’d have to be a consideration too.
Lastly, Lackey appears to be the better pitcher, anyway.
Incidentally, today is Lackey’s 37th birthday. : )

Price has over a 7 era in the playoffs this year. Tonight’s start will be very interesting.
Persoally I don’t want him. Zimmerman is a different story. Lackey was an Butt-Head while he was in Boston so his being good for the young guys is news to me.

It is definitely a test for Price whose post season performance is poor. 7 straight losses. But Jays manager John Gibbons has not handled the pitchers well, using Price in relief when they were way ahead of Texas one game. And in the last start Price retired 18 straight until an error unraveled the team and Gibbons left him in too long. He would hurt Cards in regular season if Cubs sign him but still has to prove he can be a big game pitcher.

Well my fear is one of the others in the division scooping up Heyward, Lackey, Price etc. It will be tough enough to repeat without that happening.

Here is interesting piece on how the torrid stretch run in the Central may have done in all of the contenders sine none of the top 3 in baseball made it to the series.

http://m.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article/155251836/nl-central-surge-falls-short-of-fall-classic

Yep, it’ll be something to watch this off-season. Not only what the Cards do, but also the Cubs & Pirates. Geez, I can’t wait for the off-season to officially begin.
I do agree with Dave, in that the Cards need to focus on young players. Who knows, maybe our farm teams have another Martinez, Grichuk and/or Piscotty waiting in the wings for THEIR chance to impress.

I think you’ll see the Pirates step back with their signings, but the Cubs will go for it. The key will be how hard the Cards go for it. Afterall the three best records in baseball
this year aren’t in the WS. Pitching and being hot at the right time; that seems to be working, at least this year.

Hope one is a catcher. Yadi needs more time off.I’m also concerned about next spring and his ability to be ready. If so, he should carry a 1B mitt too. YA’di never know:)

Theo Epstein (Cubs President) quoted as saying,” We’d LIKE to add one quality starting pitcher this Winter.”
But unlike last winter, when the Cubs signed left-hander Jon Lester to a six-year, $155 million contract…Epstein has said he isn’t sure if he’ll travel down the free-agent road again to land a front-line starter.
But then a Chicago Tribune article 2 days ago, speculates that the Cubs may offer a short-term deal for Lackey in the off-season.
The article added tho’, that the Cardinals ARE expected to try to re-sign him.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-free-agents-cubs-main-spt-1023-20151022-story.html
And here’s a question. Why no love for Cruz? He’s 29, arb eligble 2016-2017, cheap ($775K in 2015)…a free agent in 2018. Plus he can play 3B.
His BA recently, was much improved when he played regularly, while Yadi was side-lined. Could someone tell me why he’s dismissed from or…not included in many conversations???

You are right Haley I haven’t really considered him a 150 game type of catcher. Probably because it has been a position of strength for us and I don’t want it to drop off that much. It probably will because how many Yadi’s come along. I’m hoping a guy like K.C.’s Perez becomes available at the right time!

Well, yes…Yadi’s playing has been a strength for us. However if we do need a back-up? Tony HAS filled the bill pretty decently. I’m just not sure if we get another catcher, other than Cruz? Will playing seldom affect THAT player’s performance (and mental) also? Possibly the same kinda’ deal.
I mean, heck. Cruz hasn’t ever had a fair chance to show what he can do on a regular basis. And another catcher wouldn’t have a chance either, as long as Yadi remains healthy.

Cruz did flourish when he got a chance in September. I though they might leave Yadi off the first round seeing as how Tony was doing. But you would have to find a balance for the next year or two with Yadi who will not want to surrender too many starts. Maybe if Yadi’s rehab from thumb surgery is taken cautiously, Tony will get more work in spring and early starts to prove his worth.

Yeah, maybe Cruz WILL get a chance, Bob. In one of Mo’s more recent interviews…he said we’ll be trying to work with what we’ve got, as much as possible. Maybe that’ll include Tony???
We need a good SS & 3B back up so Carp & Peralta don’t get over-used next season. Garcia could do the SS-thing. But his defensive playing unlike his at-bats…is lacking. Practice makes perfect???
Pitching would clearly be an issue, if we can’t manage to sign Lackey.
I still think Tuivailala will come thru as a solidly good pitcher. (He initially came to the minors as a SS, I think…with pitching as an after-thought?) And Alex Reyes easily throws 100mph with decent control.

I like K.C. in 6 as my WS pick. Any other takers out there?
And true Tony C hasn’t had a real chance to prove himself and maybe next year we’ll have a better handle on wether he can handle it

Well, I’m in Missouri and KC is in Missouri. So with no allegiance to the Mets? Go Royals!!! Hahaha.
The only thing…is how the Mets crushed the Cubs. How’d THAT happen. Makes me think the Royals could have a problem. Also, they’re really not that familiar with each other’s teams. If you look online? Predictions are pretty split over-all. Guess we’ll see, huh? : )

KC handled TO’s heavy hitting team well so Cueto aside they look good on the mound. Met’s young pitcher’s look good though so could be an interesting battle. I have no stake in it and will probably only see bits and pieces.

Still can’t find any recent posts, tweets, articles, etc…about Reynolds. OR Lackey for that matter, other than that one article with speculations.

Oops? A local NBC TV station is running a Cardinals retrospective “special” right now. As they talked about pitchers? They said, “Lackey won’t probably be back next year, but there’s an up & coming talent in the minors just waiting to show his stuff…Alex Reyes.”
Damn. I don’t think they’d say something like that unless they had first-hand knowledge that negotiations with Lackey weren’t ultimately working out.

Haley, Here on this board we all luv ya! You are the Cards biggest fan, so I say this with kindness. Don’t ever believe what is said in the media, especially by the media.They twist things more than a 50’s sock hop just to sell a story OR create an issue which means more stories to write. They have NO clue what Lackey will do, heck even Lackey has no clue yet. Time will tell………….not the media. I lived through the 60’s when they told every night how we were winning in Vietnam, only turning out to be the government’s spin doctors. And if that is too long ago think about how the media beat the war drums for Bush 1 and Bush 2 to invade in the Middle East. How’s that worked out for us? Sorry, weird morning. Should have had coffee first.

Guess you’re right about that too, Dave. The little blurb immediately before the Cardinals’ TV special started last nite, did say Lackey wouldn’t probably be back. It was just to entice ya’ to watch, no doubt. (The host said it.)
But then, the 3 sports-reporters they had on….talked about Lackey’s probable offer by the Cards, making it seem there WAS a chance to re-sign Lackey. Two different takes on the Lackey situation. The goof-balls.
*****
Did you have your coffee yet? ; )

Well given what you said about MO suggesting they work mostly with what they have that might make sense. But it will be a bit disappointing as they probably cannot hold the division without a few tweaks. As we see with Wacha and Martinez you cannot expect a young talent like Reyes or Gonzales to pick up a big load of innings early in their careers.

Well, Mo said they’ll work with what they’ve got….as much as possible. He didn’t say that’d rule out grabbing a coupla’ free-agents or doing a few trades.
Anyway, according to the 3 sports media guys that were on the “special” tonite, here’s what they said:
* Heyward will probably be looking for a $150M 6-year contract. Do-able financially, but is that more than he’s worth to the Cardinals? That’d be a huge chunk of their budget. Heyward one of the guys said, is a excellent player, but not in the elite category quite yet.
* Lackey may be offered $30M, but likely for only 2-years. If Lackey would prefer a 3-year contract? Maybe the Cubs would make an offer.
* Utility infielder(s), someone who can play SS and/or 3B…will be of THE highest priority! Maybe 2 of ’em.
* David Price has personally voiced interest in playing for both the Cubs and the Cardinals, according to what they’ve heard. I mean…for whatever THAT’S worth.
* Opts-outs will play a large part in big contracts the Cards might offer.
**********
So…that’s it. Nothing more revealing was on the program.

Bob, winning the division doesn’t mean what it used to.The Giants won the WS last year from the wild card slot.The NLCentral had the three best records in baseball and none of them are playing now. I have to change my mind set for next year to ‘just make the playoffs’ mode. 1st-2nd or 3rd doesn’t matter. Being hot and health does.

Hmmm, I really hadn’t looked at it that way, Dave. You’re right. As long as we make the playoffs…and are hot in October (the more important part)? There’s a shot for anybody getting into the WS.

According to the sports ‘media’ guys, ( see above rant ) Heyward isn’t elite, YET.
Then sign him so we have him when he becomes elite. The writers are behind the curve, players like Heyward are the ones that will be the future of the game. PED users are becoming too much of a gamble. ( Check out the forehead of Daniel Murphy or the head size of the kid who hit that monsterous homer off us ) My eyes tell me that there is something going on……time will tell,not the media.
Lackey may run into the same issue the Cards have with him….age. His best offer maybe from us.
Price just doesn’t do it for me,but at the right ‘price’ I’d take him. I still like Zimmerman
One thing we need to keep an eye on is what ‘rental’ players will become available too.
AND I hope Jen posts again soon, because this post is getting way to long!

Well, the “not elite yet” comment was more likely a rationale NOT to sign Heyward at the speculated $150M it’d probably take. Essentially, a shot at making it about his “talent” not the money. But I think the sticker in that deal WILL be the big bucks.
And sure, even with all the suspensions for PED’s? There’s still gotta’ be guys out there who’re desperate enuf’ to keep using them.
I don’t know much about Zimmerman, but when I looked him up? His 2-year, $24M contract wasn’t outrageous. David Price I’d assume, will bring higher offers than that. Don’t cha’ think?
Mo HAS been one to look hard at “rental” players, yes. ; )
*********
PS? We COULD use one of the older, much shorter posts, if ya’ think that’d help?

Price will be too high, especially with a poor playoff record. As far as heyward goes,who do we sign instead? Even when he doesn’t hit guys don’t take extra bases on his arm and he has one of the highest ratings for runs save because of his defense
That has to worth something. But I go back to if not him? Who? It’s not homers that we need Busch is too big, its a guy who doesn’t strike out alot and keeps the line moving. We can’t strike out 27x in two games like we did against the Cubs in the final two games we played them.

I agree. It’d sure be nice to keep Heyward. But some of the the rumblings around town are that he might simply cost too much. But there ARE others who want to sign him anyway…considering the club has increased it’s revenues with the recent Fox TV contract.
Heck, Holliday initially singed a $120M 7-year contract. Not all that different. Plus Heyward’s a faster runner, a better base-stealer & a more talented outfielder than Holliday ever was. As you pointed out, the Jay-Hey kid’s not prone to striking out so much, either. VERY important.
Guess is just depends on who else the Cards might feel they need…and if signing Heyward to a huge contract would hamper those efforts.
The infield is a clear priority. We simply cannot allow Peralta & Carp wear themselves out next year, like what happened THIS year. I’ve heard both MM & Mo mention that MORE than once. That’s not to mention we need somebody to play behind Wong off & on. (G Garcia? Eh.) Therefore it could be the infield where Mo might wanna’ spend the biggest $$$’s.
The one thing that’s tres’ important to the Cardinal Way tho’, is that Heyward seems to be a really good fit. You know, personality-wise. Definitely a classy guy.
It’s just something DeWitt & MO will have to figure out themselves, one way or the other.
Wow, I think I just convinced myself, we HAVE to sign him. Hahaha.
PS One article I read was speculating that the NYY might just want to make Heyward an offer, if I’m not mistaken.
Oh, and yeah. I don’t think Price will be someone Mo would even consider.

I think the Yankees,if they do spend on a player, would be more apt to go after Price.
Sabathia is done and they need pitching as their poor playoff performance indicated.

Yes keeping Heyward would be very helpful to next year’s chances. The youngsters performed well but Holliday is aging and we cannot expect a full stellar season despite his leading role. Maybe trade to AL where he will thrive at DH for some infield help (though as a singles hitter who is slow afoot now, he may not have as much trade appeal as we would like to think and nay of course have a no trade clause.)

I hope that MO doesn’t opt to either blow up the core or spend too little to tweak it. Keep the youth but look for support to take the pressure off in pitching and offense as they come into their prime. It would be disappointing not to have them compete seriously next year, but it is inevitable that this string of excellent seasons cannot last for ever – that’s to be expected as long as it’s not because the team decides to rest on its laurels and reap profits; a decent effort to stay competitive will require adequate rewards to Heyward and others will be required.

No one wants Holidays contract at his age and coming off an injury prone season. His value might best be served at mid-season if he’s healthy and if an AL team needed a bat/DH. Who that is I have no idea at this time. I checked MLB for available players for 2016 and Heyward was by far the best OF listed, with Alex Gordon not to far behind except for age,Heyward 26 Gordon 32. I’d keep Heyward hands down.

That’s what I hear pretty often, Dave. A Holliday trade to someone in the AL. Mid-season would probably work best.
It’ll be tough on Matt tho’…if that happens. He’s extremely invested in/committed to the St Louis community. : (

Recent quote from Mo:
“I think as we look at the roster and assess future playing time and how people fit in, the good news is we don’t have to address arb-eligible players in the near future,” Mozeliak said. “Obviously Moss was someone we acquired because we like his power potential and we like his flexibility he gives you being able to play outfield or first. He’ll have a spot at some point.
As far as Peter goes, I don’t think it ever worked to the point where we were hopeful of. That doesn’t mean we’re at the point to give up either. We’ll reassess and look at what our opportunities look like over the next six weeks or so.”

Heard that Lackey’s asked for, or only wants a 2-year deal. Probably $18M/year? My personal opinion is that he wants to make it more comfortable for the Cards to make an offer, by not shooting for a 3-year deal.
Cardinals’ offer to Heyward will likely be 6 year contract, with opt-out after 4th year (when he’s 30 and in his prime).
Mo probably already has a solid dollar-amount in mind….but none of the locals have clue on what that is, yet.

Mo’s quote sounds like doulbe/speak to me. I’d take Lackey for that amount. And that 6 year contract is really a 4 year contract. Club and Heyward revisit it in 4 years and the club agrees to the last 2 years or Heyward gets more money from us or someone else.

Yeah, you’re correct. I suppose all longer-term contracts usually do have an opt-out at the end.
Maybe Mo’s just saying things to say stuff. Keeping his cards close to his vest…so as not to let the cat outta’ the bag. : )
A Sports Illustrated writer on the radio, said the offers this off-season will be crazy. Not that it’s probable…but it wouldn’t be a surprise to see Heyward receive an almost a $200M offer. Of course, it just depends on HOW crazy the teams get about trying to win next year.

Dodgers will be desperate to go over the top so may bid up some prices. Yankees too as they might feel close even though they have holes everywhere.

If Cards want to look at post-Lackey starter in addition to Zimmerman, Marco Estrada of the jays will be significantly cheaper than Price but showed up well in regular and post-season as a “stopper” when losses accumulated.

It will be an interesting couple of weeks, once we see how competitive and long the WS will be this year. Interesting battle of power pitching versus contact hitting, though not sure how much of it I will actually get to see.

Well if I can’t watch the Cards at least there still some baseball left. K.C. in 6 is my pick although Vagas has the Mets favored tonight and to win in 7. MO’s track record recently is to make the bigger signing before the holidays. Wonder if he’ll do that again or wait and see. Tori Hunter retired today. I always loved the way he played. He should have been a Cardinal about ten years back, but that the way it goes.

I did hear or see something about Mo’s habit of early signings. The comment was that with the time frame as it is this season? It may not go that way. (Whatever that means.)
Can’t recall if it was actually Mo or someone else who made the statement.
And for what it’s worth? The ESPN “experts” are favoring the Royals to win the WS over the Mets, 16-9.

ESPN is the kiss of death! Did you see Escobar ‘fly’ around the bases? Man talk about getting out of the box correctly.He was rounding 2B and they were just picking up the ball. Mets totally screwed up the play. 15 seconds to round the bags was just announced.

Yeah, that was really sumpin’. An inside-the-park homer. Haven’t see one of those in a long time.
The announcer said Escobar will always swing at the first pitch, right before he stepped into the batting box. And sure enuf’, he did. Boy, you wouldda’ thunk a fast-ball over the plate wouldn’t have been the first pitch. Big mistake.
Oops, bobbled ball at 3B. Tie game. Crap.

Last night’s game, albeit long, was a great baseball game to watch.To those who hit the sack early you missed alot of matching wits between the managers and the drama that only a WS can provide. NOT feelin’ it tonight for K.C. Cueto doesn’t do it for me. I think the Mets will hand him his dread locks the second time through the order.

It sounds like an epic game; unfortunately with the hour difference from New York even I could not be up that late.

I wonder if it will challenge this record stat on Win Probability Added with the comeback in 9th and win in 14th? I think the double lead changes in late innings of that 2011 game still put it ahead but will be interesting to see the calculation.

St. Louis Cardinals, Game 6, 2011 World Series: 1.377 WPA

And I agree on Cueto; he had only one good post-season start for KC against Houston and was not on against Toronto at all. Not a good rental player, even if they do manage to win the series.

Me too. I see Cueto like I do Lynn. A good pitcher, just sometimes. Depends on whether he’s lucky that day.
As for who’ll win tonite? I’m guessing KC again. Home-team advantage. Then Mets at home to tie up the series 2-2.

Complete game 2 hitter for Cueto. So we have to eat crow. A funny game but he stepped up along with the KC offense. Looks like they gained the experienced they needed last year to get over the top this time.

Well here is one way Cueto could get an edge:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/kansas-city-royals-catcher-salvador-perez-caught-with-mystery-substance-on-shin/

On another note, the epic game was raised to even more legendary if tragic status: Volquez pitched not knowing until he came out that his father had passed away just before the game in the DR. Poor man that pits the game in perspective.

Naw, that’s only a catcher rubbing pine-tar on his fingers. Totally legal. I don’t think Perez could transfer enuf’ of it onto a ball for his pitcher to benefit & without an ump noticing. Doesn’t say he wasn’t trying tho’. : )
I heard Valquez’s wife was the one who suggested waiting until after the game to say something about his dad passing. Nothing to gain by telling him any earlier….

Cueto is provindus wrong so far. 2 hitter through 6. And they have the great bullpen though it was stressed last night.

Cueto did throw well and the crow tasted over-done. Mets have a huge task in front of them that I don’t think they’ll get out of. They needed a ‘W’ last night. Funny that the Fox broadcasters mentions all the strange goings on in game one, but no mention of their screw up. What a bunch of babies. They could have had fun with it as they appoligized for it. Heck, I like the MLB broadcasters that took over for awhile better than the three wit brothers…………half,dim, and nit! Buck has to lose that facial growth. His macho attempt is weak.

You can never discount home-field advantage, despite who’s playing who. The Mets may get back on track, once they’ve returned to Citi Field.
Guess I wasn’t paying attention. Not sure what screw up and/or strange goings-on you’re referring to. The video feed outtage? I had the sound down most of the time so I wouldn’t hear bias on stuff.

The Fox broad casters had to move to the MLB booth for awhile. Just weak for a national broadcast, especially for such a big event like the WS.The Mets should bounce back and take two of three in N.Y.Then K.C. goes home and wins it. My K.C. in 6 is holding serve thus far:)

Rumor has it the Rams are moving?

Rumor’s had it that the Rams are moving, yeah. It’s been an ongoing issue for the last 6 months at least. Kroenke (owner/Walmart $$$) wants to move the team & himself, and go to CA. He’s completely ignoring everybody in St Louis. Refuses to say one word to our mayor, media or anybody else. Mr Stuck-up.

Wal-Mart ay. Check out the video, ‘Is Wal-Mart Good for America?’ You may never shop there again. It’s been at least 15 yrs. since I’ve set foot in one of those places.Try to find anything” made in America” in the joint.
Mets will bounce back tonight is my thought. Something like a 5-2, win.

You might be right about the Mets. They’ll be pumped up tonite, to get a win at home. At this point, home-advantage is huge.
While I’m not a fan of Kroenke’s? I do shop at Wally World, as my neighbor refers to it. Not that often tho’.
Kroenke married a Walton girl, so he didn’t come by his billions honestly. However, he did pretty well on his own (in real estate) before he married. Not billions, but he had amassed a few million.
Irrespective, he’s a stuck-up egocentric.

Whoa…even with Syndergaard throwing 100mph fast balls, both teams are getting hits. Looks like this will be a back ‘n forth thing, maybe all nite?

The Mets and baseball needed a N.Y. win last night.Up 3-0 would have made the WS a non factor this weekend. So Fox is happy, and so am I because I want it to go as long as possible although I picked K.C. in 6. Syndergaard was throughing heat and I was shocked the Royals were hitting him so easily. Now if the Cards made contact instead of 27 Ks in two games things may have been different. I know some people will say an out is an out,but I don’t subscribe to that theory. If a ball isn’t hit the defense has zero to do. A batted ball has to be fielded,thrown and caught to record an out. The more a defense has to do the better the odds are of getting on.

Yessir. The win keeps the series far more interesting. This is beginning to look like it’s a real toss-up as to who’ll ultimately come out on top.
Frankly, the Cardinals just didn’t have the bats this year as you said, to have been in post-season contention.
I too was shocked how Syndergaard was being hit early on. Like the one Fox guy said? The first coupla’ innings, Syndergaard must’ve been muttering to himself, “Geez, I can’t throw any harder or better to get you guys out!” Hahaha. Sumpin’ like that, anyway.
But he settled in & did a good ‘nuf job to keep the Mets in the game.

I don’t really know why, but I’m starting to have second thoughts about Heyward and his coming contract vs the teams overall needs. Maybe wait and when Holiday leaves we can pony up then. Question is who that next big bat will be? Now the issue is next year. History has shown that the regular season means zero, just get into the playoffs.
The problem will be; will we make the playoffs? One can hope the Cubs grow fat off their playoff run and the Pirates step back from their pay roll and let players go.

Exactly, Dave, That’s what some of our local talking-heads have been speculating all along. A huge contract to Heyward could limit our “buying-power” for other needed players. Particularly, one’s who’d hopefully have, a .300+ BA.
Maybe we’ve got a slugger hiding down in the minors somewhere? ; )
I think we’ve got a bunch of potential already on the team, as Piscotty, Pham, Grichuk mature & get better. And even Greg Garcia seems to have a pretty good eye at the plate. His defense clearly needs some work, tho’.
And you’re probably right, Bob. NO telling with those crazy NY people will show up in (costume-wise) tonite. Hehehe.

I can’t get my head around still playing baseball at Halloween, so not thinking about post-season moves/ The crowd could be a wild scene with costumes etc.

I agree the key is to get in the playoffs but cannot risk being relegated to wild card and losing that sudden death battle. We might end u missing a year or two while youth matures, Holliday and Molina finish their careers etc.

BOO🙂

They’re in N.Y. So how will you be able to tell if they’re in costmes?

Hmmm. Good point about the costumes, Dave. Will have to think about that. ; )

Oops?

Last nights
game should be called the ‘Bone Head Game’. Rios and Cespades, not knowing how many outs there are in the World ‘bleepin’ Series! Murphy’s fall from grace. Hope the Cards are watching and noticing that putting the ball in play( like K.C.) is how to play the game. K’s are outs like a fly balls,but Ks are never productive. Now that Halloween is over the Xmas commercials will start…………….sad.

Yeah, mistakes were made. Silly ones too. The Mets still have a chance there at home to try & come back.
And you’re right. The Cards are probably looking at KC’s hot bats….and currently mulling over which power-hitters we can go after. That’s ultimately the name of the game.
This morning, it was officially reported that Jaime’s been resigned. Like, duh? Couldda’ sworn that was already a done deal.
The only thing I can speculate…is that Mo was trying to keep Jaime hanging just enuf’ to scare him into an $11M contract, but one that’s conditional on his health?
It used to be Xmas adverts/decorations started after Thanksgiving. Now tho’, it’s the day after Halloween. Ugh.

Mo’s Sunday morning interview: “We’ll initially be coming from a position of some strength, with 5 projected starters-Wainwright, Martinez, Wacha, Lynn & Jaime. Therefore, we’re not sure yet, what’ll happen with Lackey. You can never have enuf’ good pitching, tho’.”
Also, minor-leaguers RHP Alex Reyes (21 y/o, 6′ 3″, 185lbs) and RHP Luke Weaver (22 y/o, 6′ 2″. 170lbs) will be in consideration.
Any free-agents will likely wanna’ wait to see what comes their way first, before committing to anything. So that will effect both Lackey & Heyward’s final decisions.
We’ll be keeping tabs on Double-A player Aledmys Diaz (25 y/o, 6′ 1″, 195lbs, SS & 3B) as a future possibility to relieve Peralta.
Otherwise, Mo was kinda’ tight-lipped on everything else. Guess it’s just a waiting-game….

Not sure the fat-lady’s gonna’ sing tonite. Maybe…but then again, maybe not. : )

The comments on free agents seem to suggest they will not compete too strongly to keep ours let alone pursue new ones from outside the organization. If they take an entirely wait and see attitude on those prospects, then we will be in for a down season or two while youth matures, and the salaries for Holliday, Molina etc expire, allowing tweaking to make another run around 2018 or 2019?

If they expect 2016 to be competitive they need to be serious about one or both of Lackey and Heyward since as we see with Wacha and Wong et. al. the youth sometimes takes awhile to become strong enough to compete for titles.

Well, maybe look at it this way. Ya’ don’t wanna’ run in & make an offer immediately, to Heyward, Lackey or anybody else, for that matter. Not smart. Those 2 in particular, will very likely have too many other offers to consider.
Perhaps, the best way to approach it is not only the money offered, but the options & details the Cards might wanna’ throw in a contract, too. Mo could feel it’s best to see who else comes running in with offers first. THEN…he can tweak some things to make a Cardinal contract the most attractive.
The budget for this off-season isn’t puny. So keep that in mind.
Besides, Mo can be sneaky in a way. He’s definitely not been one to tip his hand prior to a huge move. I say we’re gonna’ see some pretty big surprises, once it’s all said & done.

Remember,it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese!

Yeah. Poor first mouse. : ( Hehehe.

With all the Mets’ fretting about Harvey’s innings and pitch counts, they left him in two batters too long, and KC then ground out the tie and the win in 11. Collins must be kicking himself. What a way for the season to end!. KC record 7 come back wins from at least 2-0 deficit in one post-season.

Royals: 1st team to win 3 games in a single World Series in which they trailed in the 8th inning or later. But Game 6 2011 still ranks as most exciting by the WPA stat.

The Royals scored 41 runs from the 8th inning on in the playoffs!!!! How do you beat that?…………………..Haley will answer with 42:)

Wow, hadn’t heard that stat. That’s a huge number. Even another reason the Royals deserved to win.

Which ever reason is cited…the better, hotter team simply won. Wouldda’ been nice to have the series go to 6 or 7 since they were well-matched clubs. Late-game come-backs always make games even more fun to watch.
No doubt tho’….that 2011’s game # 6 will likely remain one of THE most exciting play-off games ever.
So OK, here we go. Let the trade-frenzy begin….

Baseball is now official over for 2015:( Series had its moments. Murphy’s stock went up now seems to have crashed. Duda popped the bed and Cespades is the head case everyone knew he was. Bet the Mets say good bye to the three of them, although Cespades they’ll think long and hard on.
The Cards picking up Garcia’s option is smart. We need a LH pitcher and he could be used as trade bait if another LHP becomes available, however 11mil. is a bargon these days. If Heyward goes that leaves our outfield with Holiday, Grichuk, Jay, Pham and Piscotty if he doesn’t play first. Not thrilled. Holiday is the key,he has to have a big year, which I don’t think he has anymore. So what to do? Mo you’re up!

The linked item about the Cardinals bench which Haley posted is interesting – reaffirms my thinking that AJ should have been kept but would have been at TC’s expense. Navarro form Toronto might be interesting as he will not get too much more playing time behind Martin there. Some interesting thoughts about infielders though less said about outfielders in the event (likely?) that Heyward signs elsewhere.

http://thecardinalnationblog.com/2015/11/02/how-the-cardinals-could-fix-their-bench-in-2016/

Yes, thecardinalnationblog.com website, appears to have some good stuff to read….AS does the scout.com website

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